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19 March 2007 @ 11:17 pm
-breaks down down laughing until i cry-  
shadowhwk, who is what I consider to be really truly American, ethnically speaking, is participating in this ongoing discussion regarding racism. Right now the discussion is focused on racism in the publishing industry. One of her debate partners feels strongly that anyone who has any black genetic material in their makeup is by default black, and that claiming to be anything other--like, multiracial--is selling out and so on and so forth in that manner. Now, what I can remember of Sarah's ethnic background off the top of my head includes Shoshone Indian, Irish, African, and possibly German, but maybe that's somebody else. Anyway, under this woman's argument, she's rejecting her black heritage and is therefore an Oreo: black on the outside, white on the inside.

I thought about this carefully, and decided no, that's all wrong. She's not nearly black enough on the outside to be an Oreo, and clearly she's too socially sensitive to be purely white on the inside.

I have concluded that obviously, she is a Nutterbutter.
 
 
Current Mood: sillyvery laughing
 
 
 
Eveshkaeveshka on March 19th, 2007 11:38 pm (UTC)
(I just don't have the icon to express my hysteria.)

You evil writer wench, you have summed her up in one!

I just hope she doesn't kill you for it... and me for totally losing it and dying of hysterical laughter.

As they say on one of my message boards:

brb, lolling.
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 12:26 am (UTC)
No killing. I laughed until I peed. :)
Eveshkaeveshka on March 20th, 2007 12:27 am (UTC)
*dies all over again*
(Deleted comment)
irishkate: fireirishkate on March 20th, 2007 12:07 pm (UTC)
You got to this point before I could say it
I am 100% white back far enough that I won't count. I'm irish and I live in Ireland too, so I'm not Irish-american or anything. But since we all came out of africa I always wanted to put down 'Black' on a census form or in answer to a question. I mean, prove i'm not.... (Don't know Oreos or nutterbutter, sorry)
Tayefethtayefeth on March 20th, 2007 12:13 am (UTC)
What I always want to know of people who complain that other people are "denying their heritage" is, how is the idea that "anyone who has any black genetic material in their makeup is by default black, and that claiming to be anything other--like, multiracial--is selling out" is any different from the old racist "one drop" belief, that said that one drop of black blood made someone unfit for polite company.
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 12:32 am (UTC)
It's not different. It's how you spin it in the name of justification.
Tayefethtayefeth on March 20th, 2007 03:36 am (UTC)
Well, yes, but if you point out the inherent racism to the people making the former claim, they get extremely upset.
kitmizkit on March 20th, 2007 09:08 am (UTC)
Yeah, that's been part of the fun of the ongoing discussion Sarah's been part of. :) It turns out the other person is defining racism in such different terms from, you know, anyone else would, that, as Sarah said, "If we both say blue, only it turns out I'm looking at the sky and you're looking at the grass, we're going to have a problem here."
Tayefethtayefeth on March 20th, 2007 11:26 am (UTC)
I hope, for Sarah's sake, that this has been an online discussion, and not, say, a discussion with a boss or coworker.
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 03:57 pm (UTC)
It is in fact online.
S. L. Gray: meeeshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 12:21 am (UTC)
Like I said, I am interestingly waffle-patterned AND yummy.

Soooo funny!
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 12:25 am (UTC)
Oh, for ze record, German = Pennsylvania Dutch, but close enough. :)
Tayefethtayefeth on March 20th, 2007 03:39 am (UTC)
The Pennsylvania Dutch are German. They're only called Dutch because the other settlers around them couldn't pronounce Deutsch.:-)
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 03:57 pm (UTC)
Yes, I know this. However, there are members of said community who get very tetchy if one calls them German. Hence the comment. :)
Ysysabel on March 20th, 2007 04:33 am (UTC)
I'll second the yummy.
kitmizkit on March 20th, 2007 09:08 am (UTC)
And peanut-shaped! Don't forget peanut-shaped! Va-va-vavoom!
dsgood on March 20th, 2007 12:24 am (UTC)
So far as my genealogy shows, I'm of pure Jewish ancestry all the way back to the exodus from Egypt. And I look Mediterranean.

The known genealogy doesn't explain why some of my relatives look distinctly Oriental; and others look Slavic or Finnish.

Many people of Eastern European ancestry -- Slavs, Balts, Germans, Jews -- look as if they have Oriental ancestry. (Much of Eastern Europe might have been designed to be invaded on horseback.)

Oh yes -- I can tan to a darker color than most African-Americans can.

And I grew up in an area which used to be mostly Dutch-speaking, got some of its British heritage from Northern Ireland....
darillian: SW Queendarillian on March 20th, 2007 01:05 am (UTC)
Nutter Butter! I like that! I think it'll take off and be in the slang dictionary in short shrift.

My question for those that claim the "denying their black heritage" is this: Why is it wrong to acknowledge additional heritage you have? If someone is black and Spanish or Irish for example, are they required to choose? If they have links to all those histories, wouldn't it be right to recognize them all? Who says that one takes precedence over the rest? Insisting that they only recognize one (in this case the African) seems pretty egocentric to me.

But then, they are just being racist themselves.
Quezzquezz on March 20th, 2007 12:07 pm (UTC)
Apparently, I'm one of Kit's "nutterbutters" so I'll answer that one:

I think this stuff only matters when money's involved -- i.e. afirmative action in the US. If you run around denying your black heritage until college and job applications, you're an ass for doing it. Can't have it both ways. Past that, I think any definition of self that is TRUE to yourself is good.

I'm multiracial (Black, white, and Asian) but I feel comfortable saying I am part of or none of all three of the communities that make up my heritage. I'd not deny any part of it, for good or ill.
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC)
According to the person who made the assertion, the problem is that the only reason someone would do this is to better themselves and elevate themselves above their societally determined role.

In other words, it's her opinion that society demands that, if you have any black heritage, you are black only, and will be treated as such. If you insist on saying that you're multiracial, you're denying the black in order to get a better lot in life, and it doesn't really matter anyway, because society's still going to treat you like you're black.

(Deleted comment)
S. L. Grayshadowhwk on March 20th, 2007 07:24 pm (UTC)
I suspect that whether there are societal roles for black people depends entirely on individual perception.

I'm sure--well, I know now--that there are people who believe that they exist. I know that there are people who don't.

The fact that we're living at the same time in the same country means to me that it must be a matter of perception.
Sunfeet: houseplantdreamstrifer on March 20th, 2007 02:40 am (UTC)
What about those white fudge covered oreos that are like five thousand calories each?!

A good friend of mine is very pale, and she's Irish. only, She's descended from the Moors. So it's funny when we're in public and I call her black (i get weeeeird looks).

As for me, I'm Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, Russian, Bohemian (because that's more fun to say than Czech), and a very tiny bit Lhakota Sioux. I like how we managed to get the three well known drinkers in there.
Quezzquezz on March 20th, 2007 12:08 pm (UTC)
I prefer Butterfinger for myself...since I don't consider myself a nutter. :)